Troubleshooting

First of all: Mod Load Order


NOTE: Most Problems are caused because of incorrect Load Orders (LO)! Make sure you read the Article about installing Horizon probably first: Installation. Some mods are either incompatible or not needed at all because Horizon adds many features by itself. An incorrect Load Order can instantly destroy the Horizon experience.


 * 1) Follow the advises concerning Load Order here.
 * 2) Its highly recommended to use a mod manager to align your mods!
 * 3) ALWAYS load other mods BEFORE Horizon, and patches AFTER. There are reasons why this must be done. The patches patch Horizon to support those mods NOT the other way around!
 * 4) If your using other Mods and have Problems with Horizon, turn them off (except Horizon Mods) use a "Mod Manager" and see if your game runs flawless. If yes: Start toogling your Mods ON again, One-by-One and start your game after every new Mod toogled ON to find out which Mod cause problem(s). This will fix most problems already either by repositioning or by disabling the Mod.
 * 5) If you still find yourself facing problems contact the Horizon Community: Horizon Discord

NOTE: A stable mod list for Horizon can be found here: "Greb's Horizon Essential Mods"

"[...] Cleaning mods is a terrible idea, especially with Horizon, never do it. if the author has an ITM that doesnt belong, report it to that author or ask questions first! As far as ITMs, i put them in on purpose to block other mods from breaking things. im sure other authors may possibly do the same thing, so i never understood why some ppl want to clean ESPs, as if its magically making it better. [...] the thing about fo4 or any game, is there is developer intended limitations on the engine. both modders (and mod creaters) get in the habit of thinking because they can edit anything, they can. just beware that means more mess, and more save game problems"

- Zawinul

Settlers can't properly path inside Architect buildings
Vanilla problem. Only so much you can do with regard to vertical pathing.

I can't find a dropped snappoint for The Gallows
It's a small metal post to the left of door that leads to DC.

NPCs (f.ex. Raiders) are taking way too many bullets to kill ...
Q: NPCs (f.ex. Raiders) are taking way too many bullets to kill, sometimes a full clip. I don't like this type of bullet sponge gameplay. Is this really how Horizon is supposed to be?

Absolutely 100% NO. A lot of people play Horizon because it removes a lot of bullet sponge gameplay.

You either:


 * 1) Have mod conflicts or installation problems.
 * 2) You're trying to snipe them with a gun from WAY outside the weapon's range.
 * 3) You're missing a lot.

NOTE: There is, of course, the chance that occasionally specific NPCs in Horizon aren't setup properly or bugged, but usually this isn't the problem.. especially in the first few levels of gameplay.

This video by SeriousCreeper is a very good demonstration of how your Horizon should play at level 1. If your playthrough doesn't look anything like this, your mod installation has conflicts or issues.

Another problem some players don't account for is WEAPON RANGE. In Fallout 4, if you try to hit a target further than the weapon's range, it will do LESS and LESS damage the further out. Don't try sniping people at level 1 with a unmodded pipe gun from 70 yards away. It's BAD!

For reference, this is roughly (but not exactly), how level 1 should be:
 * Radroaches in Vault 111: Should die in 1 baton hit, as long as you have 2 or 3+ strength.
 * Bloatflies/Radroaches in Sanctuary: Should die in 1-2 hits, although some players report that Sanctuary spawns are a little buggy, and sometimes have extra health.
 * Molerats: Should die in 2-4 hits average with a baton or pipe gun.
 * Raiders in Concord: One single headshot from a .38 should drop their health to roughly 15-20% health.  A 10mm round may actually 1-shot them in the head, depending on the type of raider.  Raiders should only take a few bodyshots as well.  Realize you are using low caliber rounds.  As you level up, you'll often 1-shot most humans with headshots when you get higher caliber and more powerful weapons.

As you level up, you'll often 1-shot most humans with headshots with the proper weapons. You also can't expect to always 1-shot enemies wearing armor and helmets. Enemies like Gunners often have higher armor.

If this doesn't match your experience, then something is wrong with your mod setup.

Enemies are hardly damaging me at all ...
Q: Enemies are hardly damaging me at all. I can stand there in Concord and raiders can't kill me.

A: Same thing as above. While your health bar IS higher (on average) in Horizon, and you can take a few extra hits more than normal.. you'll notice in the video that even the raiders there can chew you down in a short amount of time.

Unless you have some type of mod-created heavy armor on, you can still die fairly easily if you aren't careful. Especially since healing is very limited.

I'm not sure what to do to fix these problems mentioned above?
Unfortunately, it's probably not due to Horizon, so you're going to need to figure out what other mods you have installed, and what they are doing. Anything that changes damage multipliers, or armor, may be causing problems.

Horizon has a VERY VERY LARGE amount of gameplay additions to the game... you may even be able to remove mods completely if they aren't doing much, or you don't even know why you're using them.

Otherwise, some mods may need patches to operate correctly. In some cases, players have already made patches (which is awesome), but always be aware that any patch NOT made by me could be outdated or imperfect

Blank Icons: I'm seeing blank icons for some of the Horizon settlement crafting objects
This almost always means either:


 * 1) Your Fallout 4 isn't setup properly for modding.
 * 2) You upgraded Horizon, and the files didn't get overwritten properly.

When upgrading from the mod manager, always make sure you FULLY uninstall the mod first, before trying to install it again. Or the mod manager might see the files there and not allow the new version to overwrite them.

I've also heard that NMM sometimes has problems too. You may need to manually copy in some of the files from the zip file if this happens.

Can i play this mod without using Settlements?
You can definitely play Horizon without building settlements. Playing without settlements may be a bit more challenging tho, since you'll need to explore/find/buy items more often.

You may still need to build SOME objects in at least 1 settlement though, like crafting tables and such. But you don't necessarily need settlers, unless you want the benefits of things (ex: caravan travel requires at least a few settlers, etc.)

Armosmith Extended: Any plans for compatibility patch for armosmith extended
""Armorsmith Extended" is 100% incompatible with Horizon, and unnecessary with Horizon. If anyone is trying to use it with Horizon, they're doing it wrong.

Also, "Armor Keywords" should work perfectly fine with Horizon, so you CAN use armor keywords. Mods should never require Armorsmith to begin with. That's the whole point of armor keywords.

Horizon overhauls and balances all armor and weapons. You'll get all the features you want, like hiding armor pieces, etc.

Every weapon/armor mod will require a patch anyway, and most Horizon patch authors just remove any requirements of Armorsmith (and armor keywords) from the patches. There's no reason to even require it."

- Zawinul

Concord/Museum crashes
"If you have confirmed Concord/Museum crashes aren't your mod order and are in fact Nvidia graphics card related, I can confirm that running the game in borderless windowed mode fixed it for me. I'm aware of the weapon debris crash with Turing architecture, and yes it was turned off - that's not the issue.


 * 1) Longer explanation is that I just came back after a year+, loaded a minimal setup w/Horizon, made it to Concord and crashed repeatedly on the main thruway. Whittling down modlist to just Horizon w/repeated restarts didn't fix it. After reading lots of comments on this issue I can confirm taking the alternate road worked for me in preventing a CTD. But entering the Museum always crashed. Read about going in through the roof. Tried it, still CTD. Got fed up, read about 1.8 being the problem, so downgraded to 1.7.6 Horizon version. No crashes in Concord. Thought *hooray!*, but crashed maybe 1 time in 6 attempts loading into the Museum. Reloading a save from inside was an instant CTD about 3 times in 4 as well. I went up the floors to the roof exit door, saved, loaded the exterior cell, got in power armor, saved again. I thought I could maybe power my way through this B.S. and get on with playing the game. Not the case, unfortunately. CTD after reaching the far end of the Vertibird where the gatling gun is (seems to be tied to enemies spawning in). Tried to get off that rooftop over and over, maybe 10 attempts. If I sprinted I could make it to the edge of the rooftop before CTD, but I never successfully got off the roof. Nothing worked, could not progress, with only Horizon in the modlist. Didn't want to roll back my drivers, and was ready to uninstall at this point. I've read a ton of threads on this issue, but only 1 comment over on the Buffout 4 thread (don't even have it installed, but heard the mod referenced in a lot of places) suggested running in windowed mode. And it worked. Blessed, CTD free play session that has lasted about 6 hours now, far longer than I should be playing considering my workload.
 * 2) Just an FYI I'm not 100% sure it's completely stable, and it's also not quite as smooth as it should be in some areas (despite my 1660ti being way more than should be needed). I had 1 crash while running towards Sanctuary from the lake, that was repeated a second time until I tried running across the bridge instead of fording the lake. No other crashes, but it made me leery to see any at all after all that trouble trying to fix it.
 * 3) I ended up downgrading my drivers to see if that worked, and wow. Full screen max settings again, no crashes at all so far. Probably not worth it if you play anything else, but I'm generally too busy and stick with 1 game at a time. Still, it's noticeably better than windowed fullscreen if you're planning to play a lot of FO4.
 * 4) IF you choose to roll back your drivers, everything seems to work flawlessly, and then suddenly out of the blue you get CTDs while playing or loading a save in Sanctuary/Red Rocket/Concord, do NOT assume it's a build limit, mod instability or other issue borking your save. Do NOT delete all your saves in frustration expecting a whole new troubleshooting session to fix it. Instead, check your driver version. Apparently this is a whole other rabbit hole of forced updating of drivers without your permission. My driver version updated quietly in the background, and after no issues at all I come back a few days later to find my saves all CTD. Unfortunately, I found the problem too late, and had already started over."

- kaylo

Scrap Equipment Auto-Outfit
"Q: i can't seem to change the "scrap all equipment - auto outfitter" option under the architect/salvage menu. everytime i click, it just refreshes the settings page and nothing changes

A: Type in to Console: "set Z_Arc_Setting_SalvageCorpsesAutoOutfit to 0""

- Horizon Discord